People everywhere are buried in Amazon boxes. The kill was total and we ended up planting in the chips that were on top of the cardboard. Does that mean that as soon as you stop applying the product, seeds in the soil would just be waiting to come back with a vengeance? Ill try mulch, although a goat sounds fun. You will need to use a bare soil, ideally prepared as shown here: https://gardenprofessors.com/how-to-get-rid-of-your-lawn/. Hi I am late to the discussion. It will be good to have another reliable piece of the puzzle in hand. Dr. Kevin R. Butt has the credibility concerning this issue, http://www.uclan.ac.uk/staff_profiles/assets/PUBCATS_for_Web_1991_to_2007(1).docx. What might be the implications? We dont recommend guerilla hair because it is forest product and can be a fire starter. This entire process is very attractive to nematodes (earthworms and other soil animals), bacteria and fungi, which as they crawl toward and through the cardboard actually open up pockets where gasses and moisture can transfer, both from the atmosphere and from subsoil. Hi Linda,are you aware of any scientific studies involving the use of cardboard for fungal growth? I started covering parts of my lawn with cardboard boxes, filling them with mulch. Yes, @Nolan Archer, we are stopping weeds, and as surprising as it may seem, it works a treat. There is absolutely no published evidence to the contrary. The link only points to a short synopsis of the study without a detailed conclusion. Wood chips will promote this activity. Yes indeed cardboard mulch reduces gas diffusion more than wood chips do, anybody should be able to figure that out on their own, but so what? ________________________________________________________. I would like to actually improve the soil. But underground those same material will cause a decrease in soil oxygen, as the microbes and other organisms use up the available soil oxygen but little is replaced. They are not nutritious enough to serve as a base for seeding over, either. Keep your soil no matter what. Burlap and jute work too in this regard. So Ive created a larger opening and placed extra native soil in which Ive planted the plant. Im going to put this idea in my back pocket just in case. Then theres the issue of what you are going to look at underground, and how. Im wondering your anecdotal thoughts on a 3d sheet mulch scheme I have considered. Thank you so much Linda you are my horticulture guru. Ive been using a couple of techniques. (One of the links in the first paragraph goes to a post explaining exactly how to do this.). I have an 100 tree orchard in the desert and I wish to use an abundance of chipped and shredded cardboard to improve the soil. Thank you. I would be curious to hear back from you about whether this works over the years. Based on the discussion above, I will forego a cardboard layer! What is benecial in one soil/climate but be detrimental in another. Sourcing woodchip for my garden veg plot (cut and chipped by machinery and transported by lorries powered by fossil fuels) from many miles away, may actually do much more harm, than if I covered it with damp cardboard and compost for one season. August 6 2020: You state: Anything that reduces oxygen diffusion into the soil will negatively affect the soil ecosystem and the more diverse and complex it is, the bigger the negative impact.. Put weed barrier fabric on top of biodegradable cardboard on top of rebar so my water saving artificial grass wont sink. You have to be kind of crazy to be gardening in the desert anyway Even crazier to research worm behavior there. Adding an organic mulch will build good rich black soil mostly because it encourages the type of microbial action that retains carbon in the soil while bare soil encourages microbial action that just consumes the carbon turning it into CO2 which ends up back in the atmosphere. August 5 2020: You state: There is no theoretical plant or soil science that would support the use of cardboard, so the additional lack of any practical published evidence means theres nothing that a scientist could use to support the use of cardboard, given the collateral damage imposed on the soil ecosystem (which is totally ignored by gardeners who are solely focused on crop yields). It is discussed a great deal in many of Paul Stamets books. The more methods we have for consideration and experimentation, the better. A conclusion that cardboard harms soil health would require more extensive study. I live in Michigan. When and if you do an experiment and publish the results, then we can talk about it. Great article with some peer reviewed studies to back up the claims. Hi Joseph Business Park Converts Lawn in 2 Miles of Medians. The cardboard serves to reduce oxygen and water to the vegetative and to the microbes that will be breaking down the leaves and the toxin. Is there any way to be certain you wont be introducing disease into your yard? Wood chips are all you need, and their permeability is vastly superior to any sheet mulch. Wed like to be able to have these to back up this point of view in conversations with gardeners and when doing presentations. roll cardboard corrugated 450mm 75m office Annoying arrogance dismissing many peoples useful observations. You really dont need another study to show that cardboard (or any sheet mulch) is a poor choice compared to wood chips, because weve established the basic science fo gas transfer and we know that oxygen is required in soil for there to be soil life. There is practically no way to know and thus a possibility additional undesirable chemicals may have leached into the cardboard you mentioned. That is certainly not a desirable outcome for any garden or landscape. Cardboard is meant to last otherwise Amazon would have a tough time shipping things in inclement weather. Its hard to keep 4 or more inches of chips everywhere on our property at all times. Bark mulch is left over from the lumber industry and has little to no wood. Theres lots of oxygen above ground. His plants are very healthy. You might be interested in reading this peer-reviewed article, which will further address the problems with soil amendment, and offers science-based alternatives to improving soil. While science is definitely paramount, labeling a technique as death and anecdotal isnt always correct simply because you have evidence that technique has flaws. Can you repost? I listened to an interview Margaret Roach did with some researcher about solarization and obscuration. I have gardened for over 10 years and have 3 active gardens going on now. For instance, how are you dealing with things such as the soil, cardboard, and mulch moisture levels (and spatial variability within them) before and after the sheeting, variations in the organic content and parent material of the soils, the pre-existing ecosystems of flora and fauna at all scales, or the rather large range of agricultural plants that may or may not benefit from a mulch? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335224039_Carbon_dioxide_and_oxygen_exchange_at_the_soil-atmosphere_boundary_as_affected_by_various_mulch_materials. ), Dr. Chalker-Scott, the Master Composters at Clark County have build over 1,600 square feet of lasagna gardens using cardboard as a weed barrier. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/12/13/the-truth-wears-off. Any suggestions? We all have different limits and compromises to make. cardboard towel paper Coarse mulch is also ideal for pathways. Then I can walk around freely and let others do the same. The only guarantee you will have is that the weeds will grow like crazy around the outside edge of the cardboard and any overhead irrigation will be reading them, not your new transplants. Are you in an area with ChipDrop? I hired students to spread the chips.) Dont worry about termites they do not each chips. Sometimes the atheist turns out to be as fanatic as the believer, and the skeptic a victim of his own ability to reason, i.e. OK, Im calling BS. The latter is less contradictory as they did in fact study sheet mulching, but not with cardboard, rather plastics, particle board, etc. To support your suggestion that many more gardeners follow your advice, I believe we would need many more local, carefully managed and coppiced woodlands to be created, which takes both land, time (to grow the trees), money and political will. Did the study also compare weed control performance? None. however Id be careful in dissuading diy gardeners from using any organic material. Weeds are called weeds for a reason. What chemicals was that pallet wood treated with? The reason the levels of CO2 were not very different among treatments (except under plastic) was because these are very simple mesocosms with only microbial life. Thats the state of the science, and its up to proponents of cardboard mulches and/or lasagna mulching to provide evidence that our study was incorrect. nematodes? I use them as a mulch for all my garden and landscape beds. We use woodchip too, as its also a valuable mulch. In the event that you have notifications turned on for this comment thanks for the great post, thoughtful, specific, reasonable. You will see a link to published research at the bottom. Interesting article, Linda. The research plot experienced severe repeated predation by herbivores destroying most of the crops. All cardboard is manufactured with chemicals to improve stability and resist water. Are you aware of anything scientific that shows cardboard is detrimental to plants or soil life? It is frequently cited in peer-reviewed papers (personal communication etc.). Weve migrated the blog a few times and sometimes the links dont get fixed. cardboard mulching sheet recycled mulch fertilizer layer roll step enlarge permies e469 80ad Not to kill weeds ~ I actually want to grow some weeds that are a part of my diet ~ but to get rid of the grass & instead create an herb & nutritious weed garden. How long until the soil recovers? Thank you for everything Ive learned today! Click on the Information Link below to learn more! Cardboard for sure is not plastic, for sure it is easier to lay down than wood chips, and for sure it also brings in addition to blocking light a mechanical barrier to anything growing under it. My big problem is bermuda grass. If you can't find a good source of tree trimmings, several vendors on the marketplace carry arbor mulch. First of all, clay soils are nutrient rich. This has worked well when Ive used it. Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pocket (Opens in new window), Barf! Now, until cardboard proponents publish evidence to the contrary, its pretty obvious that cardboard mulch interferes with gas diffusion. Im wondering if I could design an experiment to test the hypothesis: After two months, using 12 of woodchip mulch to suppress weeds results in more soil organisms under the area than using cardboard covered with 3 of mulch., The null hypothesis would be, what, something like: After two months, using 12 of woodchip mulch to suppress weeds does not result in more soil organisms under the area than using cardboard covered with 3 of mulch?. Thats going to prevent it from absorbing moisture. So my anecdotal observations are supported through related research, even though the plant material is different. Your soil system will recover from the tarp. Hi Linda. Wood absorbs water. Fresh chips are not a problem, anyway. When the cardboard has achieved its goal of killing the underlying weeds, and starts to break down, and the roots of your plantings begin to penetrate the cardboard, it allows the subsoil to be reconnected to the atmosphere. Thanks for the reply. Im hoping you offer some suggestions for how to establish a small prairie yard for our western Washington location. My flower beds have other bushes and trees that I will need to preserve. Bark, which many people erroneously call wood chips, dont absorb water and create dry soil conditions below. Hi Will Hi Linda! Having never used any of these materials myself its good to have warning from those that have. Unfortunately a garden from seed is difficult to do without getting weeds as well. This is a mulch that would mimic nature more acurately than a 12 layer of woodchip. Whereas a couple inches of woodchips over a layer of cardboard still allowed the soil to be wet. (Sorry thats a lot of questions at once. Or is there a chance that it is now pathogen-rich and dangerous? But youre not going to find any plant or soil scientists who will take this seriously before then. Sorry, but no. Or is the soil below the cardboard forever damaged? The cardboard appears to drastically reduce plant stress between waterings and increase life below. newly relocated, housebound & isolated at the moment due to vehicle problems, Im always seeking ways to save money, and, at same time am oh so desperately wanting to simply plant a vegie garden. After researching the chemicals used in making cardboard I quickly steered away from that thought. Please call us at 650.364.1730 or visit our store to place your order. I have been using same pieces of lanscape cloth in vegetable garden for several years. Never enough compost. You would need the folloing treatments: Wood chips (you dont need different levels as there is already published research showing that deeper mulches are better at weed control). So no, I dont recommend using newspaper. If it is poor quality, then you can refuse the delivery and send it back. Leaves can also be tough and take time to break down. Over time, weve converted over 8500 sq. Not true. I suggest you read the post in full. I reviewed your linked document and it says that mulch 3 and under did not suppress weeds while 4 and 6 inches does, but then I also noticed you referenced using 8-12 inches to another commenter above. In it are data that show cardboard is ten times worse in terms of gas permeability than wood chips. through the wet material). Your goal is to eliminate light, not oxygen. You then go on to say that the woodchips are three dimensional. Seed germinaton requires very little light, and some require no light at all. Bark does not. Wood chip mulch has very little bark as the mass of wood is so much greater. I was excited to see a study showing weeds stopped with 12 of mulch. Would layering a lawn totally with wood chips, and then building mounds of soil, for a vegetable garden be problematic? I never water because it is very expensive. Thanks, Mike! I had in my mind bark mulch when reading your posts, and am glad to know thats an important difference. After reading your article I understand why cardboard isnt the best option. First of all, thank you for posting all this information about cardboard mulching Im so happy I found it before attempting to use cardboard. I have three questions if you wouldnt mind answering: 1) I have a very crowded garden of ornamental perennials, annuals, and shrubs. My question is 1) Do I need to stay away from certain species of trees like invasive ones? I see you recommend 12 of wood chips but that amount seems out of the question for 1000 + ft2. As you said to Amy on, September 12, 2020 in relation to smothering the soil, as cardboard apparently does: Your soil system will recover from the tarp. I think the anecdotal evidence will support my position Ill research a little to see what the experts say I think your article referenced is too narrow to draw a conclusion that lasagna mulching will not improve soil health and worm density My experience is with red wigglers in the arid southwest Mojave Desert Whether the scientific literature supports the observed results, I dont know. You can cover with straw (not hay!) As soon as the chips wear down below 4 inches just a bit, those plants come back. And you want to plant your plant into the soil not on top of cardboard. Brian. Do you have any recommendations or a link to a book website for mulching guidelines? Great questions regarding mulch depths. Interesting thoughts regarding cardboard and sheet mulching in general. Is it possible to first smother with cardboard and then remove? Do I know where it has come from and how far? And to figure out what to do about the area I have already sheet mulched, some of which I have already planted into. Not all compost is created equal. Sonia, lets try this one instead. Otherwise, you are wasting your time. You may have gotten the results you were seeking but at a cost to the natural way of things. Fossil fuels would be used to transport the relatively heavy woodchip vast distances. Any scientific paper stating that diffusion rate limits soil health should share some insight into what diffusion rate is necessary. Advancing the science of gardening and other stuff since 2009. Arbor mulch works great for lawn conversions andcan be made from many kinds of trees. If you have published evidence that disagrees with the research to date on mulches of any stripe, feel free to cite it. Weve now published research that shows cardboard significantly reduces gas transfer compared to wood chips. We know that fungus breaks down cellulose material, not bacteria. corrugated 75m 1500mm carton rouleaux tibiaent rolls That is clearly problematic. Thanks, Tanya, for taking the time to read the information with an open mind and think about it objectively. I am happy to continue the dialogue via email. Leaves that are soft and thin, like maples, will mat and create anaerobic conditions in the soil. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/315662938_Using_arborist_wood_chips_as_a_landscape_mulch_WSU_Extension_Fact_Sheet_FS160E. so yes, sheet mulching is bad. The advice you were giving may have been the best possible 30 years ago but it is certainly not today. As responsible gardeners, we must consider where all this woodchip is going to come from and what this ultimately costs. ***An update on cardboard gas permeability. Might you say something about this. So its good to block CO2 gas diffusion to the atmosphere to some extent because a CO2 build up and lowering O2 in the soil suppresses the action of microbes that are just turning carbon into CO2 and encourages other soil microbes like Fungi that build soil organic matter that doesnt just end up back in the atmosphere. Cardboard and weed-control fabric damage the soil and its ecosystem. Thanks for all this great work. Mostly sunny areas. Many thanks for replying to my comment. Thats why the diffusion coefficient is so important. Second question, youve stated several times that wood chips absorb and hold water and Im wondering how this is completely counter to my experiences. The article is about vermicomposting. Books: http://www.sustainablelandscapesandgardens.com It destroys structure and functionality. Thats the state of the science, and its up to proponents of cardboard mulches and/or lasagna mulching to provide evidence that our study was incorrect. There has been no depth found thats been published as being harmful to plant health. Any comments? next. Once under control I intend to plant natives. Nothing (control). After all, this is a science-based blog! I have very persistent poison ivy and am trying to make areas to grow vegetables. We dont recommend you use cardboard at all. Sorry for the late reply Im just now pulling through a pandemic-induced flood of email questions and information requests. Im probably sitting at 6 right now. Is there any more information that you know of on how much of a concern this is? I dont know what you mean. The three certifications to look for: The optimum mulch for lawn conversion is coarse recycled mulch either pallet mulchfrom chipped pallets or arbor mulch from tree trimmings. Temporary impermeability is actually a good thing in this case, and in fact this is how soil is created; by different materials forming an aggregate with is neither uniform in composition or structure. Everything under it was dead dead dead by the time I bothered removing it. As a mainlander, the cacophony of mole crickets here in summer is deafening.good luck with the vege patch.. Is there something wrong with the scientific method? I agree completely and proponents of the practice are best suited for providing funding for the research. Weve just published an article comparing diffusion rates of different mulches. Now to find a source of copious chip. If youve read the other posts linked at the beginning, youll see discussion about the problems with sheet mulches, which include newspaper, cardboard, and landscape fabric. Its great that it works for you, but its not scientific research. It would be great if someone could do a longer-term study where they compared a) how many weeds are killed long-term using cardboard-and-mulch versus just deep mulch; and b) how that affects insect life and other soil health measures. A total success with reasonable effort on our part. Here is a graphic comparing diffusion rates of various mulches. They need to establish into the site soil. Fine mulches include straw, grape hulls, and compost. Get seasonal tips on how best to take care of your garden and landscape, along with updates on our classes, products, resources, and more. The garden is the perfect laboratory for experiencing science in real time. Somewhere outside your property there is a vigorous population of morning glory. The bonus is that, when I dig and find cardboard, I know the dead vines are there and I should just be careful (the oil on the vines lasts at least 18 months after the vine dies). Then bury in wood chips. I wonder why worms congregate under plastic that has been left on concrete? Its there now. Take a look at this recent post that discusses this: http://gardenprofessors.com/a-tale-of-two-weeders-lessons-in-managing-aggressive-perennial-weeds/, As a manufacturer of cardboard products, I feel I need to clear up some of your unsubstantiated claims about that substrate. What is going on? Really, any paper product can be shredded for use in a compost pile. Use it liberally and deeply. Her latest effort is an update of Art Kruckebergs Gardening with Native Plants of the Pacific Northwest from UW Press (2019). These greens combine with the browns of the cardboard to create sheets of humus as they break down together. Results may differ in drier climates. Eventually Ill expand the garden into the backyard. Lindas contribution to gardeners was recognized in 2017 by the Association for Garden Communicators as the first recipient of their Cynthia Westcott Scientific Writing Award. I am guessing since its this thread it is the former and not the latter. Your own reasoning begs the question so what? In fact the corrugation in cardboard is ideal for leaving pockets of permeability. paper masking kraft roll weed reel wood packaging control organic mulch rolls interested It is as though you are cherry picking. Thank you! Are you recommending more than 4 inches deep? I was originally considering cardboard as a base material, which led me to this posting. Or would I need to get someone at a university to do it for me? I place at least a 3 layer of compost or well rotted manure on top of the cardboard and many gardeners water the cardboard first, to aid the breakdown of the material. Its too rich to suppress weeds. Another method: use cardboard for pathways and layers of newspaper for the garden. You dont need the cardboard. just as you would do if you were seeding a lawn. Its a great way to use invasive species for something useful. If you have a large gardening or landscaping project, then buying compost in bulk can be very cost effective. Right now there is NO published research, whatsoever, on cardboard mulches. Yes, cardboard will suffocate these plants, thats the point, in creating an anaerobic condition, certain soil bacteria not usually present will help to break down what had been the surface plants, releasing nutrients into a bio-available compost. Research takes time and time is not free. Wow. Although over years the location I chose proved too tempting for the roots of nearby vegetation and trees. Hi Linda! This is anecdotal evidence (as Im sure you know) and doesnt compare the method to others that dont interfere with water and gas movement. They are more laminate in morphology, like lots of pieces of paper. I used cardboard and now all my acid loving plants seem to be lacking iron. We had planned to focus more on the monitoring of the earthworm population, but the record setting rainfall added complicating factors of earthworm behavior into the mix. If you introduce woodchip sourced from conifer woodlands to a soil that hasnt been exposed to this substrate before (e.g. oh wait. Thanks in advance. Before your visit, please read our COVID-19 Updates. How about poking holes in the cardboard? If you know an easy way to shred cardboard, let me know, because the effort sounds like a loss overall. Thanks! But, and Im surprised this hasnt been brought up previously, is the idea that the rate of CO2 diffusion is in any way related to the level of CO2 or oxygen in the soil. Graph from above makes it seem even worse than cardboard, at least for gas exchange.